I watched the Dr. Phil Interview with Paul Janka the other day, and I think I can summarize it like this:
Tall, good looking Harvard grad manages to sleep with 138 women over 10 years by devoting his entire life to getting laid.
Now, I’m not suggesting that Paul Janka has no game - I’m sure he can get a number in a club as good as any other guy out there, and I don’t doubt that he’s slept with 138 or however many women. But the fact is, the kind of attitude that Paul Janka represents is, in my opinion, the bad side of the community. I really don’t think guy in the community should be using him as a role model.
For example.
He mentions at one point that “on a good week, I go on 10-15 dates”. Where the hell does he find the time to go on 15 dates a week? That’s 780 dates a year! Even if you presume that he sleeps with 138 women a YEAR, that means he’s getting shut down 642 times! And he’s been doing this for how many years? No wonder he needs to be cheap
Clearly, Paul Janka has some serious problems with his game, and you can see it in the way that women react to him.
Now, I know that the Dr. Phil show deliberately creates drama and is happy to make people look bad if they can get raitings - heck, they tried to do something similar when Lovesystems was on the show - but you can tell that the women in the audience, and the women who interacted with Paul were NOT impressed by him. Even if it was a bit of a setup, the sentiment was genuine.
He set off their creep radar.
Deep down inside, you can tell from Paul’s writings and his attitude that he doesn’t really like or understand women.
He says you need to “avoid being manipulated by a woman’s agenda”… what agenda? If you’ve done things right, her agenda will be to hook up with you. Likewise he says you shouldn’t eat with women because they feel “bloated and uncomfortable” - that’s just bizarre.
Either Paul Janka is dating some pretty messed up women (I can believe this), or his understanding of women is warped by his own insecurities.
Now, I know people are going to say “he’s just saying you shouldn’t put a woman on a pedestal”. Well, there’s a difference between not putting a woman on a pedestal and being contemptuous and fearful of them. Paul’s emphasis on “the woman’s agenda” subcommunicates that he thinks women are out to get him, and that women aren’t capable of enjoying his company for it’s own sake.
Does Paul Janka maybe have some good ideas?
Sure. I agree with him that you shouldn’t spend too much money on women, and that you shouldn’t put them on a pedestal or let them push you around, but even a broken clock is right two times a day.
The problem is the overarching theme of Janka’s “method” is one which encourages being suspicious and defensive around women, and one which presumes that women are out to get you and manipulate you. And if you accept that frame, accept that mindset, you’re going to become a creep.
And you’re going to have to go on 15 dates a week, just to get laid.
See my other post, in which I am meaner to Paul Janka.
Also, check out Picking up for Beginners
20 responses so far ↓
1 Clarence // Aug 2, 2008 at 10:35 am
i agree with you. i mean he says on the pick up podcast to just shut and let the girl talk and lead the intereaction. this will allow them to seduce theself. thats how an afc would do things
2 VITAMIN T // Aug 2, 2008 at 10:59 am
I disagree as dating is a numbers game. It’s not up to the woman only to decide to progress but you need to decide as well if she’s good enough for you Yeah, he gets shut down all the time. Nobody can be successful with every girl. Furthermore, stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and focus on yourself cause nobody else’s game is going to work for you anyway.
3 Tenmagnet // Aug 2, 2008 at 11:28 am
Clarence - Exactly! Shutting up and letting the girl talk and lead the interaction sounds like a strategy that only makes sense if you’re a good looking guy with a really unattractive personality.
4 Dr. Pepsi // Aug 2, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Notice how Paul Janka’s new interviews are more controversial than his earlier ones?
I think he’s doing a lot of this stuff for marketing and attention. This stuff isn’t geared for people in the community, it’s for the average guy who hears “slept with 138 women” and is like “Holy Shit”.
5 Brad // Aug 2, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I’ve always disagreed with dating being a numbers game… it sounds like a seen from Glen Garry, Glen Ross…
The key, is to build a lifestyle that woman can appreciate and admire… cultivate relationships and network… and in all honesty… be comfortable with who you are…
… which is easier said than done.
“Cold calling” for chicks is too much work… lol
6 Tenmagnet // Aug 2, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Brad - I totally agree. Dating is not a numbers game once you’re good at it.
Though I do think that the learning process is a numbers game. Interacting with and dating a lot of women, (and inevitably striking out a lot) is part of the learning process. So it’s useful to see it as a numbers game at first.
But if you’re still in that phase after a few months, you’re doing something wrong.
7 vitamin T a.k.a. Chef Boyar-T a.k.a.Notorious T.O.Double D. a.k.a. Risky Business // Aug 3, 2008 at 7:57 am
I agree about being comfortable with yourself, but if you are building a lifestyle just for the intention to gain womens’ appreciation and admiration, isn’t that still not being 100% true to yourself? For insatnce, peacocking is all about seeking validation. It seems to be secondary to who you are. Couldn’t this be the same as believing women hold all the decision making power? Don’t you think you should always live in your own reality first? As in this train is leaving now, so it makes no difference whether or not you join me for the ride.
8 vitamin T a.k.a. Chef Boyar-T a.k.a.Notorious T.O.Double D. a.k.a. Risky Business // Aug 3, 2008 at 8:05 am
Furthermore, isn’t “networking” all about reaching numerous people? Wouldn’t you agree that instead of cold-calling it’s more how you deal with impromptu opportunities?
9 Metalhaze // Aug 10, 2008 at 3:43 pm
“i agree with you. i mean he says on the pick up podcast to just shut and let the girl talk and lead the intereaction. this will allow them to seduce theself. thats how an afc would do things”
I listened to the interview and his mp3 Conversation secrets and that is not what he talks about.
What he means is that she should talk more than you. Females talk more than men and this is a fact, there is nothing unsexy for a women than a man that keeps talking on and on and on. What they want is a man that TRULY listens to them and does not interrupt them with unsolicited advice.
when I talk in a way that is more upfront, straightforward, specific and unapologetic, my words have more impact vs having inconsequential small talk and platitudes just to fill the time and beat around the bush.
he never mentioned about letting the women take the lead on the contrary he makes it EXPLICIT that he acts like a REFREE in the conversation and guides it where he wants by asking her open ended questions about herself to get more information about her and build intimacy at the same time.
Is dating a numbers game? yes to a certain degree . There is no fool proof method for women are to a certain extent “creatures of the moment”, it all depends on how they are feeling at a given time and although you can influence that, it is never under your total control.
What is under your control is your behavior towards ppl and how you let/allow/tolerate people’s behavior towards you.
if you are not being rejected it means that either you are not pushing the interaction far enough or that you are approaching girls that are already looking for someone and you have a good intuition on picking up on that.
you might not like janka’s game but check out again his ebook, there are lots of interesting information in it.
ps: yes taking women on a dinner/date hardly works because no one wants to fuck after a heavy meal (I don’t), it is too romantic for a first date (she’s still a stranger) and it might appear as if I’m trying to buy her affection by impressing her. To me, a girl has to earn the right to be spoiled.
Regard,
10 metalhaze // Aug 10, 2008 at 3:46 pm
“i agree with you. i mean he says on the pick up podcast to just shut and let the girl talk and lead the intereaction. this will allow them to seduce theself. thats how an afc would do things”
I listened to the interview and his mp3 Conversation secrets and that is not what he talks about. m
11 Days of Broken Arrows // Aug 10, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Hey cool blog.
I agree with the premise of your post. I think Janka is a full of crap publicity whore.
He also isn’t media savvy enough to have read the stories where women complain men don’t take them on dates anymore. Men just expect to meet on MySpace (or wherever) come over nad have sex.
This is the key. Who goes on dates to get laid? Dating is s0 1956…a nice thing to do if you wanna get married. But not to get laid.
Dating, as Tom Leykis says, consists of: you take her out on the date, you spend the money, then you drop her off at the Bad Boy’s house where she has sex…with him, not you.
I’m suspicious of anyone who goes on “dates” too much.
12 Anonymous // Aug 11, 2008 at 5:21 pm
I disagree completely with your analysis on Paul Janka.
There seems to be a perception that is certainly standardised in our society is - if you manage to sleep around excessively - you’re an unethical, narcissistic, moral-deprived individual. Now, whatever one’s belief in how an ‘ideal’ community or society should work - self-interest realistically takes precedence. And in the case of Paul Janka, he’s doing something that he likes to do. It’s as simple as that.
I’m not saying that all males should go out there and chauvinistically oppress women only to score with them. All I am saying is that I think it’s wrong to conclude that what Paul Janka is doing is wrong. I think he has every right to do what he wants as long as they are not illicit, in which they aren’t. The sex is consensual. The conversations work. His routine and strategies so far have worked. That’s it. He’s been able to reconcile his emotional responses to ensure that he successfully scores with women. Especially in the face of how women classically are always chased by men - I find it commendable that he has reversed the chasing process.
Lastly, one thing I loved about what he said was that we shouldn’t position women on a pedestal as if they are unobtainable. That’s simply true. The collective notion is that women are regarded as the hallmark of society. If women certainly want equality - we as males must also treat women as equals in the dating environment. Paul Janka has demonstrated this through his steadfast confidence and strong sense of conviction when picking up women.
I salute him.
13 Tenmagnet // Aug 11, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Anonymous -
If you’ll read a bit more of my blog, you’ll find that I’m not anti-sleeping around.
I’m not saying that Paul Janka is a narcissist or a creep BECAUSE he sleeps around, I’m arguing that he’s a creep AND he sleeps around, and that he would probably get laid a lot more, with a lot less effort, if he were less of a creep.
I agree with Paul that you shouldn’t put women on a pedestal, but he didn’t invent that idea, and one good idea doesn’t make up for the large quantity of bullshit ideas he proposes.
14 MikeStoute // Aug 13, 2008 at 1:46 am
AMEN! It makes me sick that everyone just follows the newest product not even thinking about what they are really promoting. You have these guys talking about inner game and being a man on their site, then they push this creepy product?
I think even my faithful companion Bobby may have put a post up for him, I had to let it go and make him promise he would never do it again…lol
I haven’t met him in person, but from what I have seen and herd this guy should not be looked upon as a role model.
Just look at the bad press this guy gets!
http://gawker.com/news/paul-janka/
Be a Man, not a Dick!
15 Brad // Aug 13, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Ah… so you’re reasoning in the number’s game is more along the lines of networking and not:
“I need to hit on 100 women today”… type numbers game…
Then we’re on the same page.
http://www.angeleyesdevilsmile.com/blog/youre-one-person-away/
That post pretty much sums up my opinion on “networking” in general…
Sorry Ten… if you need to moderate… feel free…
16 Paul Janka is a bigger douche than I thought. | Lovesystems // Aug 13, 2008 at 3:33 pm
[...] saw on another site, little plug for Paul Janka, which mentions that Gawker hates on him, and has even made “false allegations of date [...]
17 Greg M // Oct 5, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I’m not sure I totally agree. There’s the portrayal of Paul Janka, but I’ve met the guy. Yes, the first time I saw him I thought he was almost TOO laid back. But as I got to know him I realized that he’s got a lot of game AND an up front attitude about what he does, just like all the top PUAs at lovesystems — although I haven’t met you guys, yet (I’m in NYC and don’t have enough money to take a bootcamp at the moment).
Paul’s game is mostly a numbers game. So is everyone else’s, but he’s actually very good at picking up women and daygame. Very efficient, but in order to do this he does a lot of approaching and plays a numbers game. When he’s talking about a woman’s agenda, he means dinners, winning over her friends, and whatever else comes up, before having sex. The stuff that may often not lead anywhere. Consider, this is just an alternative approach. On the one hand, you can get really good at winning over groups of people, at having long “day 2’s” and maximizing your chances, or you can spend this time meeting hundreds of women and then using the numbers in your favor. The second approach is arguably much less personal, but also much less frustrating for the guy who wants to date lots of women and play the field.
Paul’s been able to take it to the extreme where he wastes the least amount of time and resources on getting sex, of any man in the world probably (who is not rich or famous). And one of his views is that once you’ve had sex with a woman, you are much more free to be yourselves — she is no longer playing hard to get and you are no longer thinking how to get in her pants as you talk to her. When you talk about, say, politics, the conversation will be genuine.
Not everyone is all about sex, but it’s true that a lot of the guys in the pickup community are about getting sex quickly and say pretty much the same things as Janka (e.g. David D: becoming lovers early on gives you more choices than prolonged dating).
That said, of course there is the ideal that a woman would prefer. That is for a man to present himself well, spend time with her, make her feel special and totally comfortable, and then seduce her. This same man would be great to present to friends, to family, etc. The problem is, today’s women also in the meantime get seduced by and sleep with all kinds of OTHER men — on vacation,say — while this presumably ideal guy is taking his romantic sweet time. So until getting in a relationship, almost everyone’s playing the field, i.e. everyone is having quick sex until they find their next long term relationship.
18 Another Anon // Oct 14, 2008 at 2:16 pm
I’m not sure there’s really much conflict here.
I watched an interview with Cajun recently, and one part stuck in my mind, he said that one of the most effective approaches (particularly for day game) is:
“Listen, I think you’re really cute. I’d kick myself in the ass if I didn’t come over and introduce myself … so, how ya doing, I’m Derek, nice to meet you. Listen, I gotta go, but you should give me your number, I’d love to talk to you.”
Pretty damn close to Janka’s approach.
Insofar as Janka being a tall, good looking, Harvard grad … that also has to be balanced with the fact this is New York. He’s also over thirty, and has no money. Obviously, he’s doing something right. All without A1A2A3, IVDs, C&F, or whatever else is being promoted now.
It’s not club game, and I’m sure you guys would blow him out of the water in competition. But most guys don’t really get MM to work anyway, witness Derek’s cousin on Keys to Progress. And here’s a guy that undoubtedly gets a lot more instruction than most.
Personally, I like the simple approach Janka suggests. Too much of the community has been obsessed with social proofing. And lets be honest, it’s a bit of a con. Most will never be the alpha dominant leader bringing life to the party (and I don’t care how many lines your rehearse in front of the mirror).
Janka proves getting laid can be a lot simpler.
19 BasilRansom // Oct 16, 2008 at 9:42 am
You’ve misunderstood Janka, at the very least, you haven’t written why exactly you object to him. You say he’s a creep, without having said why.
The women on the show hissed at him because he has reduced women’s machinations in the dating game to naught, and revealed the ugly hypocrisies that comprise the psyche of American women. Were he to engage those women one on one, without being paraded as a Cassanova, he’d surely have charmed a great deal of them.
He wants to sleep with lots of women for little money and time per bang, and he’s found a system to achieve that.
And every man with game will say forward things to a woman; some will laugh, some will be aroused, and some will be disgusted.
Also, it’s my firm belief that many American women straight up suck, they have a huge sense of entitlement - witness the woman who was angry at him for having scolded her about eating that cookie - if this were a dude you were teaching, you would be telling him he’s being reactive, instead of fun and playful. A cool response from a girl would be “Yeah, Ill just get fat and settle for a trekkie” or “Alright, you eat it and get fat instead of me” or any number of other answers, instead of “Oh my God, I’m a woman, I can’t have a man telling me to eat healthy so I can stay attractive!”
Unlike you though, I see less value to having platonic friendships with women. They can be emasculating, and the best of men get along fine without them.
20 dreamerboy in nyc // Oct 17, 2008 at 6:56 am
Hey chris, I respect your game man. but paul hgas been doing this on his own.. he didnt have sinn or mystery to mentor him. I give him props..its new york man.I live here and it fits into what I can gain experience . I do nightgame ala TMM and follow Sinn’s SNL’s game helped me. but Paul breaks it down crude but truly unique. As in all cities, there are all type of messed up and unhealthy women, here.
If you read his book on “obsessed” he basically breaks down afc traits and alpha traits and references ways to the superior man.
He is man behind the scene , not the boyfriend type that gets cheated on.
He is control in relationships which is coolest ever stuff ive read and applied cause…. I bet you guys offer a seperate course on that just to make things into business but anyways … He incorporates man in control of his life and relationships whether it one night of serious.
I ended up meeting him. he is different and I dont consider him “community” he is the real deal .
cassanova and don juan were different
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